“We need to change the system”.

Readers of this blog will be aware that for some time now I have complained about the deficiencies inherent within our current system of representative democracy, the lack of knowledge – and thus expertise – exhibited by our politicians; coupled with the inability of the electorate to hold said politicians to daily account.

Today I posted on Twitter the following which elicited an almost immediate response :

This prompted me to take the matter further – via Direct Message – producing this exchange:

(click to enlarge)

At the outset let me make clear that it is not my intention to begin a public spat with a blogger I hold in high regard for his skills at research coupled with the enormous amount of excellent work he has produced on his blog with regard to Brexit. Indeed, I have also made known my support for his exit plan encapsulated in FlexCit; although I have also made known that I totally disagreed with the order in which the six aims were placed within that document.

In rebuttal to the responses received to my tweets then I must repeat:

  •  Had as much effort been put into The Harrogate Agenda as has been put into FlexCit, might the nation, where ‘politics’ is concerned, not be in the mess it now is?
  • While funds were found to produce and publicise FlexCit, I was informed by the Director of The Harrogate Agenda that there were no funds available to promote it. Yet could not The Harrogate Agenda have secured funds through ‘crowd-funding’? This, I was informed by said Director, had not been considered.
  • ‘Changing the system’ is what the Harrogate Agenda is about, yet does not FlexCit state (page 377): We see little value in withdrawing from the EU if it only means returning reclaimed powers to the political elites who held them previously – which begs the question of why is it the last aim?

That The Harrogate Agenda was ‘usurped’ from the original attendees at the first and subsequent meeting is beyond doubt – possibly because said attendees originally had not grasped the core principle of direct democracy; namely that of people power and what it entailed. Unfortunately, having ‘usurped’ said idea, once again the question has to be asked: just what have those that usurped it done to promote it?

Where ‘promotion’ of The Harrogate Agenda is concerned it would only appear to have involved what may be termed ‘interminable’ workshops concerned with the promotion  of same – said workshops being attended by virtually the same people (at least those I did attend were).

To rely on the history of the Chartist Movement and their ‘success’, together with the period it took for them to achieve most of their aims, is to my mind, a ‘red herring’. It should be recalled the Chartist Movement did not have the means of communication we have today and neither, more importantly, did they have recourse to the world-wide-web.

Bearing in mind the preceding point, I would refer to the ‘speed’ with which AfD and the 5* Movement gained support among their electorates, coupled with the electoral success they achieved, in what is in electoral terms, a relatively short time.

As with any ‘prophet’ who presents a new ‘belief’ or’idea’, he/she may well garner many followers who achieve what may be termed a ‘psychophantic’ nature in which their prophet can do/say no wrong – as illustrated by those zealots who hang on every word of Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn or Nigel Farage.

As with most ‘prophets’ there comes a time when they appear to believe in their own superiority and thus almost what appears to be a ‘divine right’, in  that only their views are correct;  the process crushing dissension and/or discussion.

With most ‘prophets’ of an idea or belief, there comes a time when said psycophantic followers need to begin to think for themselves.

Just saying………..


25 thoughts on ““We need to change the system”.

  1. I,m stealing the following from elsewhere but it seems relevant!
    “My guess is that political leaders are far above average intelligence, but tend to be ideologically blinkered, seduced by power, bewildered by complexity, and fairly nasty people to begin with.”
    I thought that was a pretty good assessment!!!

  2. It’s all very well stating, ‘we are in for the long haul’, for this post mentions AfD which did not exist when the original THA meeting was held. In the age of modern communication methods the proposed time-scale for THA is farcical so the comparison to the Chartists irrelevant. The failure of THA is obvious and I say is like a litmus test to measure other work from the same source.

    1. some people are good at crunching detail and numbers, it doesn’t always mean they’ll be good at politics, unfortunately those behind the THA ain’t any good at doing politics!

  3. I would suggest that our political masters are above averagely educated, rather than above average intelligence. Education tells you a tomato is a fruit. Intelligence tells you not to add it to a fruit salad. That is the distinction that many politicians fail to realise.

  4. It is some time since I bothered to visit your site with good reason for you are still banging the same old drum completely oblivious to the fact it would appear your own Direct Democracy initiative has failed.

    “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”
    Matthew 7:5

    1. You will no doubt be pleased to know that your absence has not been missed.

      Instead of mocking my efforts it would be more beneficial if you were to respond to the criticisms levied about the inactivity of THA.

      As to Matthew 7:5, is this the best you can muster whilst doing your Master’s bidding?

      1. That’s rich coming from you as you have spent your time, since THA’s conception, mocking our efforts and even, in the early months setting up a rival ‘Harrogate Declaration’, which I accept you did eventually close down, before launching your ‘Direct Democacy 4 the UK’ which was undoubtedly a failure. This is NOT to mock your efforts but to state facts.

        If only you had been able to use your talents as part of the THA team you would have done far more for the cause than you have thus far achieved carping from the side lines.

        One of your repeated points, about our lack of progress, is to mention the rapid raise of certain political parties in Europe but as you should well appreciate THA is not and never will be a political party which so often rise and fall over time. UKIP is a classic example of this.

        I hope the cooler air of your move ‘up North’ helps you clear your head but I sadly doubt it and as to Matthew 7:5 it is not only the best I can do but 100% accurate as you continue to waste your considerable talents attempting to ‘go it alone’ with no awareness of your own faults.

        Finally I repeat THA is not just about me or Richard but a team effort of which you have sadly and regrettably chosen not to be part of.

        1. Re last paragraph: but then I am not alone, as you well know.

          As to faults: you have none? At least I recognise mine, one of which is I do not suffer fools – hence my obvious animosity where you are concerned.

          In conclusion, no hard feelings this end.

          Fröliche Weihnachten und ein frohes neues Jahr

          1. None this end either.

            However just a few further points about THA.

            1. Anyone would think form your comments that I am happy to coast long but as you should appreciate from your DD4UK the public aren’t ready yet for mass protest.
            2. As to activity I have just had our accounts audited etc, am working on a u-tube promotional clip, recently sent a postcard to every MP promoting EU Referendum which was clearly marked ‘sponsored by THA’ and next week I’m meeting an established political fund raiser.
            3. As to EU Referendum THA quite often gets an airing and as you may know that blog now regularly gets 25,000 hits a day.
            4. I’m now on my fifth meeting with my MP who I have made well aware of THA.

            Finally, it occurred to me during the day, reflecting on your comments about AfD and 5*, that the only way our agenda will come about is when a majority of existing MPs buy into our demands and this will only happened when enough people force them to adopt them. Competing with established parties will not do the trick. So it is for this very reason, as proved by history, that our demands will take time.

            As you know THA is not asking MPs to vote for their own demise only to agree that the system needs a complete overhaul.

            THA must be ready and waiting when the people awake from their slumber and decide they want the political change we are offering and then only vote in MPs who support our demands.

            1. Niall point 3; when exactly does it get a regular airing?

              now i read the good Doctors blog avery day and i haven’t seen anything written about THA, not one blog post!

              i see your comments, and the fact you drop in the THA occasionally but thats all, not really airing the subject is it!

                1. well i read both blogs and at least David has stuck to his principles, as for Norths blog it seems to be infested with pro remain drones, who only support what North rights because they think its the least damageing way of “leaving” the EU, they certainly dont care about THA, infact a number of them have stated they’d vote to remain in the EU given half a chance!

                  i find it very curious that North allows these people on his blog after all only a few years ago he hated these type of europhiles, i would suggest he alows these people on his blog in a cynical attempt to increase traffic to his blog

                  unfortunately most of what he does is about his ego, and the fact he’s going along with a bunch of labour/libdem europhiles proves my point, these people dont want to leave the EU, they dont support Flexcit,or the THA, they cherry pick the EEA/EFTA bit and couldnt care less about the rest of Norths work, he’s become the ” useful idiot ” of a bunch of europhiles who will get us stuck in EFTA until the time is right, and then take us back into the EU!

                  like i said some people are good at “detail” …doesn’t mean they are any good at doing politics!

  5. Mentioned above is – “unfortunately those behind the THA ain’t any good at doing politics!”

    Well yes, another factual statement along with the other ‘failures’ listed. Now this may sound odd but we should welcome the failures. Practical politics is both iterative and dynamic, ideally the task of promoting an idea moves on because it has been tried and evaluated. That is bound to include failure. Also looking at the progress of AfD is valid, over 90 seats in the Bundestag, not bad for an organisation too stupid to form itself into a movement preferring something else to get the job done.

    And UKIP is a ‘failure’? Well yes if you say so, much as, The Referendum Party. However, some might say the one led to the other and the traditional political parties felt pushed so one offered a referendum. Just a point of view that, along with an example of the iterative process. Then we have the carping from the sidelines. Oh yes, and you will find this is typical of blogging. I know of one blog where prior to the Brexit referendum, during the campaign and ever since the victory we are being told, SOMEONE HAS DONE SOMETHING WRONG. It gets tedious, it really does.

  6. In2minds – it really is critical, as I tried t explain above, to understand the way significant political change happens and as yet history is devoid of any new or existing political party making those changes without a mass movement of the people urging them to do so.

    1. I’d suggest you get your local MP onto it, and if Norths blog is getting 25000 hits a day this would be the perfect opportunity to get him to write a guest post for Norths blog, but then Richard North doesn’t do” team playing” so that may well be a waste of time!

      1. My local MP to write about what exactly?

        As to EU Referendum I’m surprised it has passed you by that his priority is Brexit as before that is resolved political reform is I would suggest not on the immediate radar.

            1. here’s a better idea, when i click on your name it takes me to THA website, since your mate Norths getting so much traffic to his blog why don’t you ask him to have it as part of his links section, after all he currently has a blog roll which has web sites which are no longer active
              including i think your old biased bbc site!

              talking of which, here’s another idea, or rather a statement of fact, if you had time to slag off the beeb you must have also had time to do something more constructive with your time, therefore I’d suggest you start writing something about THA, perhaps your local MP could contribute, since he/ she sound so potentially helpful

              ….just a few thoughts!

  7. “…that his priority is Brexit as before that is resolved political reform……”

    So the world waits? That statement suggests the entire Brexit process is being done by one person, no it is not. But it is a telling comment. After all what is being ‘resolved’? Also it’s hilarious to be asked to wait for a bottom up scheme to begin while one person makes a very long list of the ‘mistakes’ of others. The bottom up top down mismatch is there for all to see.

    1. I’m wondering what PROVEN expertise and successes you bring to our political problems so that others can judge whether your comments are worthy of notice?

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